Righteousness in Designation?
Friday I was interviewed and retained by a new client. This particular client has several issues that actually can fall in line with a great debate we have all been following.
First, a little background:
A young newly wedded (three years) couple has their tax return done by “pros” as they are not among those who follow the taxing world. We will call them Pat and Jody Taxpayer. Having just started their own Business they left HeRBert (the group who prepared their returns) for what to them was perceived as a tax professional. They retained a CPA to handle some general bookkeeping and complete tax returns.
Good choice?
Of course it is, “All but the militantly nefarious and hopelessly deluded concede that CPAs are experts at keeping books and records. There simply is no higher accounting “designation.” then CPA.
The CPA (Certified Public Accountant) maintained records by gaining access to Pat & Jody’s bank account using the online statements. The first tax season for this CPA came around and she completed the 2007 tax return. Another year passed, and she completed the 2008 return.
Several months ago, the IRS notified the Taxpayers that the 2007 return was under investigation. Seven lines on two different Schedule Cs were in Question.
Considering a CPA had prepared this return there should be no worries.
So how did I get this return?
When the time came for the audit with the “Tax Compliance Officer”, the CPA, had manufactured information to provide the IRS to validate two of the seven lines in question and did not show up to guide the Taxpayers through the 3 ½ hour long ordeal. Needless to say, the IRS found no substantial proof or validation for seven lines in question. P & J now are holding a bill from the IRS for over $10,000.00.
Not only are the taxpayers confused about what happened, but the “Compliance Officer” also looked at their 2008 return, they are about to undergo another audit.
“Because good accounting skills are a critical part of good tax preparation, CPAs are uniquely qualified to be tax preparers.”
So where is this CPA? Avoiding Pat and Jody.
This is a most uniquely “qualified” tax preparer?
I reviewed 2006 (again prepared by HeRBert – a fast food chain preparation service), 2007 and 2008 returns. (again, these two returns were prepared by the same “CPA”)
- 2006 had 6 errors resulting in a $213 refund to Pat and Judy (I can say this because I have already amended this return)
- 2007 has 21 errors - three missing forms (associated with errors) and if that wasn’t bad enough, 5 of the errors are mathematical.
“Good tax preparation is about numbers. It’s about keeping good books and records.
In short, it’s about good accounting.
In fact, what is a tax return if it’s not an accounting?”
Hummmmm
if anyone needs a definition to “accounting” I have a link to the right for Merriam-Webster Dictionary or you can click this.
Good thing it doesn’t suggest an ability to add or subtract.
Same for Accountant.
- 2008, well is just wrong. I say this because nothing changed from 2007 through 2008.
- 2007 consisted of
- 1040 Long Form
- 2 Schedule Cs
What the 2008 return consisted of was a 1040A – Short Form, nothing more.
My conclusion is this CPA stands proudly among those who are truly CPA tax professionals. You real CPAs who are tax pros, give her credibility she assuredly doesn’t need.
As for Jody and Pat, luckily they found a tax professional. I will help them through the amended returns, the audit up coming, and any and all IRS intervention that may come their way. If you wish to stay updated on their situation, I will create a blog page giving more detail information and will keep it updated.
However not all of you will see it this way. Why? Well, I am no longer a CPA. I am not an EA, nor am I an Attorney. What does this make me? I am an unenrolled preparer.
Unenrolled preparers, by definition, have no recognized credentials and are bound by no professional standards
And what are the unique qualifications of an unenrolled preparer?
Would someone please tell me?
Anyone?
The silence is deafening.
That’s because the answer is “none . . . nada . . . zero . . . zilch.”
The silence sir, is deafening because you are on your computer. But now, please, open your eyes fully, adjust your glasses, I want you to hear me plainly.
An unenrolled preparer is a unique person. Like a Lawyer, a CPA, or Doctor or any other profession, you are going to have unqualified hacks. My Credentials are useless in the taxing industry.
Or did you miss it?
The AICPA told a CPA/Tax Professional “We do not offer a credential in taxation. In general, our approach has been not to develop credential programs around areas for which the public already believes CPAs to ‘own’. In addition, we do not endorse a particular tax credential.”
An unenrolled preparer sees how others take advantage of the miss-conceptions of the designation and learns tax rules and regs to help people through what can be a very taxing time (no pun intended).
I question your thinking when you say a man with over 35 years in the tax preparation industry has no credibility. I only have 23 so I must not have any either?
Hummmm, let’s look at my background a bit:
a) A Masters in Accounting
b) Formally employed by this countries (at the time) Largest Accounting firms
c) Formally a CPA
d) 23 years preparing returns for taxpayers
Of the four listed in my mind, only qualifies me to call myself a tax professional. I can assure you it isn’t one of the top three.
“There simply is no higher accounting designation.”
Thus, if the Internal Revenue Code imposes an affirmative duty on taxpayers to maintain good books and records, doesn’t that alone explain why CPAs are uniquely qualified to prepare tax returns and why many CPAs are drawn to the field of tax preparation?
Of course it does.”
You Pompous arrogant ass. Is your head so high in the sky that you are not getting enough oxygen?
True enough, the IRC does affirm duty to taxpayers to maintain good and accurate records. Alone that tells me (a former CPA) should seek advice from a CPA on how to keep those records not how or where to put them on a tax return.
It is my opinion that a good majority of the CPAs that are drawn to taxation and preparation do so for the money.
(Not to get off subject, but are you actually a licensed Tax Attorney, and a CPA? I know a few Lawyers and I’ll have to ask, to be sure, but I think like the AICP, there is nothing out there for Lawyers to hold actual “tax” credentials. If I am wrong please correct me, do you have some designation that says you’re a Tax Lawyer? If so, what is it?
As for not being bound by professional standards, I find it hard to understand why I have to point out to a designated pro that we (The Unenrolled prepares) are bound by the same rules in Circular 230 as you are. Maybe you should read it some time.
A while back, I post Who is: a post that defines different titles. If you want to see the entire post please click on the link Who is: Below is a brief recap:
A Tax Attorney - Typically large and even small businesses will meet with a tax attorney once every quarter or once a year to ensure that they are making the best possible business choices with regards to investments and tax issues. Since the taxation, laws change constantly.
A Bookkeeper – is responsible for keeping accurate, up-to-date business records for proper cash flow management, balance sheet preparation, and developing expansion and investment plans.
Accountants – keep track of a company’s money.
Enrolled Agent – is a federally authorized tax practitioner who has technical expertise in the field of taxation and who is empowered by the U.S. Department of the Treasury to represent taxpayers before all administrative levels of the Internal Revenue Service for audits, collections, and appeals.
Tax Preparer – an individual who prepares tax returns.
Other post from the “taxguy” blog that may be related to the taxpayer issue mentioned in this post.
Choosing the Right Representative
5 Worst Things You Can Do if You Get an IRS Collection Notice a Guest post from Peter Pappas. . .
How to Avoid IRS Penalties and Interest
Picking A CPA With Too Much. . .
The Truth About Paying Fewer Taxes.
I read a lot about the taxing world. Often I am searchingto find books to recommend to my clients to give them a better understanding how a tax return works and what is needed to make it work best and what they can do to minimize their liability. The Truth About Paying Fewer Taxes is by far the best book I have ever come across to accomplish just that.
The Truth About Paying Fewer Taxes is a book with “52 Truths” about taxes. It plainly answers questions like ”do you have to file?”, to “when?”, to figuring out just what is taxable all the way through to retirement. Also covering Compliance, Audits, and Special Tax Situations The Truth About Paying Fewer Taxes will give you a better understanding of taxes, thus giving you what you need to cut your taxes.
The Truth About Paying Fewer Taxes, is a book written by Kay Bell. Kay is a fellow tax blogger (Don’t Mess With Taxes, Taxes: Eye on the IRS), She helped create Bankrate.com’s tax channel and continues to be a major contributor to Bankrate’s Tax Guide. I have had occasion to talk with Kay on the phone, and I communicate regularly with her via Twitter.
Kay’s writing is beautiful and gentile, like reading a great novel.
You can see a full list of the 52 truths just by looking at Barnes and Nobel’s Feature tab for The Truth About Paying Fewer Taxes Each one of the truths is explained in detail and in plain language, so you can save money and understand why you’re saving money.
I have been recommending this book to every one of my clients, and will continue to do so from now on.
I have a signed copy (yes, signed by Kay Bell the author) of The Truth About Paying Fewer Taxes and will be giving it away here.
How to enter:
Each of the following will count as one entry for a chance to win.
Please read the Contest Terms below.
ü Leave a comment on this post stating how you prepared or will prepare your taxe return. (self, fast-food chain, CPA, software, free-file, Other-please describe)
ü Subscribe to my RSS feed and leave a comment below to let me know you did so, or
ü Subscribe to my email feed leave a comment here using the same email address with which you subscribed. (this will gain you two entries for the drawing)
ü Blog about this contest and link back here from your blog. (Leave me a comment and link to your blog post here to let me know.)
ü Follow me on twitter – @bruce_taxguy. Leave a comment here with your twitter username.
ü Tweet about this contest and leave a comment to let me know you did so.
Bonus Entries: Leave comments on other posts on this blog. If you’re new to taxguy, visit earlier posts. The comment(s) must show some thought and not just “I agree” or “Great idea.” Come back to this post and let me know which post(s) you commented on. Each approved comment will gain you an additional entry.
Contest Terms
Ø The contest begins now and ends at 11:59PM EST on March 17th, 2009. Comments to this post will be closed at that time.
Ø 1 winner will be randomly selected using a random integer generator at random.org.
Ø I will contact the winner via the email address used to comment here.
Ø The winner will have 3 days to respond with necessary contact information for mailing prize. (I will send a 2nd notification email after 2 days if we have not heard back.)
Ø If the winner does not respond after 4 days, a new winner will be selected from remaining entrants.
Prize Terms
While I will do my best to ensure proper delivery of the winners autographed copy of The Truth About Paying Fewer Taxes, I am not liable for non-delivery due to:
v Incorrect mailing and contact information provided by the winner
v Loss or error on the part of the postal service or delivery personnel
v Any other matter beyond my control
Who is Who – a re-posted article
As a tax preparer I am often asked what is the difference between a tax attorney, an accountant/CPA, a bookkeeper, an Enrolled Agent, and a tax preparer.
A Tax Attorney is not the same as an accountant. The accountant can work with the financial issues and has a general knowledge of tax laws; however a tax attorney is a specialist in all aspects of tax law. Although they often work closely together, they are two complete different services. Typically large and even small businesses will meet with a tax attorney once every quarter or once a year to ensure that they are making the best possible business choices with regards to investments and tax issues. Since the taxation laws change constantly, this is an important step.
A Bookkeeper is responsible for keeping accurate, up-to-date business records for proper cash flow management, balance sheet preparation, and developing expansion and investment plans. A bookkeeper also assists in filing tax returns with updated tax records. Accurate bookkeeping is a legal requirement and should be kept well within the standards that are set by local and federal tax agencies. A bookkeeper accurately records all of the financial transactions. It is the responsibility of bookkeeper to note all monetary transactions that are received and paid out. The records also include outstanding balances that the company owes to other parties and others who owe to the business. Business bookkeeping takes a lot of time and cannot be done in a hurry. At small businesses, bookkeepers also double as company accountants. Perhaps bookkeepers have the biggest responsibilities in the company as business planning, payroll management, and tax return preparations are dependent on accurate bookkeeping. Bookkeepers often do not have the qualifications or certifications of accountants, but the responsibility is not any less. Bookkeepers that have a great deal of experience can market themselves as accountants or managers. For that, they also need to supplement their profession with certificate courses, seminar attendance, and on-job training. All types of businesses require bookkeepers who are experienced in their specific business functions.
Accountants keep track of a company’s money. The company’s managers and people outside the company read their reports. Managers look at the accountants’ reports to see how well their companies are doing. There are four kinds of accountants:
Public accountants work for public accounting companies. They do accounting, auditing, tax, and consulting work. Some have their own businesses. They do many different kinds of accounting for people outside the company.
Management accountants keep track of the money spent and made by the companies for which they work.
Accountants generally work a standard 40-hour week, but some work 50 hours a week or more. Tax accountants often work long hours during the tax season, from January to April. Most accountants have a college degree in accounting. Public accountants have to take a special test as well, resulting in a certification. Public accountants also must have a special license from the State in which they live. Accountants are generally good mathematicians, and have good analytical skills.
An Enrolled Agent (EA) is a federally-authorized tax practitioner who has technical expertise in the field of taxation and who is empowered by the U.S. Department of the Treasury to represent taxpayers before all administrative levels of the Internal Revenue Service for audits, collections, and appeals. “Enrolled” means to be licensed to practice by the federal government, and “Agent” means authorized to appear in the place of the taxpayer at the IRS. Only Enrolled Agents, attorneys, and CPAs may represent taxpayers before the IRS. The Enrolled Agent profession dates back to 1884 when, after questionable claims had been presented for Civil War losses, Congress acted to regulate persons who represented citizens in their dealings with the U.S. Treasury Department.
A professional Tax Preparer is an individual who prepares tax returns. A professional tax preparer can be a Tax Attorney, an Accountant/CPA, a Bookkeeper, an Enrolled Agent, or anyone who professionally prepares tax returns for clients. Most return preparers are professional, honest and provide excellent service to their clients.
So there you have it.
How do you choose the right one to prepare your taxes? There is no one factor to use in determining this. I suggest you read the IRS Tips for Choosing a Tax Preparer. Or my website page Finding a Qualified Tax Preparer. I would also hope you to read 5 Biggest Mistakes most taxpayers make when choosing a tax professional!
This is a re-post from 07/23/08
Guest Post Living Almost Large
This is another addition to the series “Mistakes made when choosing a paid tax preparer”.
Finding a Tax Preparer
I’ve only used a tax preparer once in my life. That was the year we moved cross country and were unfamiliar with the new tax laws in the state.
We found a preparer by asking our neighbors. He was fantastic. Problem? He charged an arm and a leg. He was definitely more for people with a lot more assets than we had. I’m not saying I would go to H & R Block; those people only take a 12 week course and then are “qualified” to prepare taxes.
Honestly I know more tax law than many of them who are on message boards talking about taxes. Thus our mistake was finding an overqualified Certified Professional Accountant. Yes we needed help, but I doubt we needed someone so qualified.
Turns out, that the CPA we used had to fill out a lot of extra forms because of the filing status of my DH from non-resident to resident. Also he helped us with our international declarations of non-residence status. So perhaps it was worth it
Overall we paid $800 for our taxes to be prepared. The best part was we are now able to follow how the CPA filed the taxes. And be relatively certain that we are using TurboTax appropriately.
I think that we probably won’t use another preparer until we move again, in which case we’ll have to deal with moving expenses, reimbursements, etc from the company. Thus unless you have a net worth of 7 figures, at least a million dollars, then I think it’s not worth hiring a CPA. TurboTax is more than adequate in filing your taxes.
This is a guest post from over at LivingAlmostLarge. A Personal Finance Blog. For more from her, go to her site LivingAlmostLarge.
Thanks again LAL.
Again, I want to invite any and all guest post on this subject. I want to hear from all bloggers or just readers with their own input. Let’s see what you see I am missing. If you have some words of wisdom on this subject please let us share it with everyone, if it is something that has already been covered, so what, I am looking for others to tell what they know or have learned about finding a paid preparer. Repetition drives the point home.
A few personal notes from me (taxguy). The last time I had heard the franchise I address regularly as HeRBert (H & R Block), are only given a 9 weeks of training with six of those being trained how to move around the software being used. If it is now 12 weeks (it has been awhile since I received my information), I wonder if 1/3 of that time is still being used to train only on software navigation.
Before anyone ask – Star Trek fans should know what I mean by “HeRBert”.
If you’re not a fan, then it is from the Original Star Trek series:
Episode # 75 titled “The Way to Eden”.
My favorite quote from the episode “Tell Herbert, it’s no go!”
And a bit of script from the episode:
Kirk: What does ‘Herbert’ mean?
Spock: It is, um, um, somewhat, uh, uncomplimentary, Captain. Herbert was a minor official…notorious for his rigid and limited…patterns of thought.
Kirk: Well, I shall try to be less rigid in my thinking.
Should I do my own taxes. . .
This is a guest post from Andy over at $aving to Invest. I am very honored to have Andy here as his blogs on blogging help me in my blogging. This article goes along with my last post Choosing a tax preparer. . . This article was inspired by my guest post Real Tax deductions that may surprise you at $aving to Invest where Andy had commented on the money savings a tax prepare can save you.
Thanks again Andy.
When it comes to doing your taxes, one question that most people have asked themselves at some point is, “Should I do my own taxes or hire an accountant?” When I first started filing tax returns they were very basic and I used to do them myself. However once I started working full time, investing and undertaking further education I started using an accountant to file my taxes. They make life much easier and a good accountant will by far save you more money than you would pay in preparation fees. However you need to weigh up your own situation to determine the best and most cost-effective way to prepare your taxes.
So how do I know if need an accountant? The more complicated your taxes are and the greater you earnings, the more likely it is you need a tax professional. The easiest way to determine this is to first try to do your taxes on your own. If you find it’s too difficult, or if you feel like you’re making mistakes, seek out an accountant or a tax preparation company. {Bruce here, I just want to add that when deciding on an accountant/tax preparer know who you are hiring, if you have a question check my post Who is:}
Though I did my own taxes for a long time, I gave up once they became complicated and too much work. My brother referred me to his friend, who was an excellent up and coming accountant and someone I was very comfortable to pay for doing my taxes. I was sure he would get the maximum return I was entitled to and provide assistance with any future audits if needed. With income from various countries (due to multiple investments) having a knowledgeable and competent tax professional greatly assisted with my family’s taxation impacts and he has provided sound tax related investing advice on a number of occasions. Not to mention all the money he saved me.
From my experience — and this may not be true for everyone — having an accountant prepare my taxes has paid for itself. Though I’m a relatively smart guy and follow directions well, there are things I miss when I do them myself. Further, the tax code is updated every year and most of us non-accountants don’t have the time or background to keep up with all the changes and possible deductions. Accountants normally have tax preparation software and tax checklists that enable them to file taxes quicker, with much fewer errors and to try and get back as much as legally possible for you. For example, did you know you can claim the fuel /driving costs to and from training classes/courses you go to using your own car? {Bruce here – what Andy is referring to I believe is on Form 2106 when deducting work related expenses if you attend a training class or CE course for your employer you are able to deduct any expenses that your employer doesn’t reimburse you for. To see if your specific situation applies to this rule, please check with your preparer.}For multiple days or year-long programs, that can add up to hundreds of dollars in deductions most of us wouldn’t know about if doing our taxes on our own.
A good accountant will do more than just file your taxes; they will actually save you taxes and provide sound tax related advice. The other thing is to always choose a qualified accountant you are comfortable with, trust and has good referrals.
For more on this topic please see yesterdays post and/or More on “finding a pro”. . .
Prepare your taxes on-line With L & R Tax Preparation
L & R Tax Preparation
Tax Preparation, Payroll, and Accounting,
Including online services.
E=MC2 or use QuickBooks
